Firstly, it is clear that we both disagree on the Biblical 'truthfulness' about "Once Saved Always Saved" (OSAS). I have proven OSAS to be false in several of my videos. Maybe you might care to view one or more of them and offer some comments in response to share your thoughts with me?
— Are Robert Breaker's claims about 23rd Sept and 'Once Saved Always Saved' Biblically correct? - https://youtu.be/EVkcaxmsHv0
Next, the article above spoke about the "Children of Abraham" throughout the ages, who have demonstrated before God that as "Abraham had WORKS" that pleased God (John 8:39), so they also have performed the "WORKS" God requires them to perform:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO ALSO; and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: SHEW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." (James 2:18)
"Know ye therefore that THEY WHICH ARE OF FAITH [that includes "works"], THE SAME ARE THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM." (Galatians 3:7)
Larry - I'm not trying to appear confrontational here. Christians should defend what they believe. Many refuse to discuss issues like this with me. In this, they prefer to remain silent and move on. This behaviour is what makes Jesus Christ angry with such people, as they demonstrate they have no regard for (Absolute) 'TRUTH' only their own church’s ‘truth’:
" I KNOW THY WORKS, that THOU ART NEITHER COLD [i.e. against what is said by speaking up and quoting scripture verses to support their claims] NOR HOT [indicating total agreement with the preacher]: I would thou wert COLD or HOT. 16 So then because thou art LUKEWARM [by preferring to remain silent and moving on], and NEITHER COLD NOR HOT, I WILL SPUE THEE [or thy name] out of my [Christ’s] mouth [as detestable on Judgment day – Rev 20:11-15]." (Revelation 3:16).
Finally, if you prefer to not engage with me regarding OSAS via the videos, maybe you may care to provide me with an answer to the following question?
The scripture verse stated by the Apostle Paul below says:
"But THEY [i.e. today's Christians?] HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Esaias [Isaiah 53:1] saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?" (Romans 10:16 KJV)
Given that the scripture verses below plainly state that Salvation is:
"...by GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the [free] GIFT OF GOD: 9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
The question here is that if Salvation is a "FREE GIFT" as stated above and in Romans 5:15, 16 and 18, what is the situation the Apostle is referring to in regards to "obeying the gospel"?
Finally, if Christians fail to "obey the gospel", does that indicate they have lost their Salvation?
Any comments you may have would be much appreciated, Larry.
“If Christians fail to meet the above foundational requirements for entry into Heaven, how else can they be assured of Salvation?”
When you recognize the 3 parts of salvation you realize you are justified by GRACE [ unmerited favor ]. Justification is the first step, not the journey. Sanctification is the journey [ the Lord’s Highway ].
I was saved [ justified ]. I am being saved [ sanctified ]. I shall be saved [ like Jesus ].
Do you believe “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Well, you had a pretty long list. Even a short list seems to conflict with “unmerited favor” so I guess I’m stalling until I become more familiar with your point/work/paradigm. If you’re doing anything to earn something you’re doing religion, which I am no longer much interested in.
John 15:1-8 in the King James Bible clearly states that God requires every Christian (symbolised as a "branch" grafted into Jesus (symbolised as the "True Vine") to produce the required quantity of "FRUIT". This means Christians MUST perform "WORKS" in which to produce the "FRUIT".
If "FRUITFUL" Christians produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God by the end of their life, Jesus says that He regards them as "GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS" in Matthew 25:21, 23.
Every "servant" is required by his (or her) master (or mistress) to "WORK". Jesus said this about the 'lazy servant' who failed to "WORK" as required for Him:
"Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine...28 [Jesus said] Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents...30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:24-30.
The point here is that Christians either produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God - or they don't. If they do, then they have eternal life with God and Christ after their life ends here on the Earth. If they fail to produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT", they will be "...cast...into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth [throughout eternity - Isaiah 66:22-24]." "
I hope this helps you "...become more familiar with your point/work/paradigm."
“We are new creatures in Christ, having been begotten by the Spirit. Our identity has been transferred from the fleshly man to the new man that was begotten by our heavenly Father by the Holy Spirit. We are not the same person that was born naturally. Our identity has been transferred to a new man, which, by nature, serves the law of God. That is what Paul taught.e
I agree with what you say Larry; however, "FAITH" without any accompanying "WORKS OF FAITH" is what the Apostle James calls "DEAD FAITH".
So my question to you is this Larry. Further back you said,
"I was saved [ justified ]. I am being saved [ sanctified ]. I shall be saved [ like Jesus ]."
If this a "positional" view of your faith without any of the associated "WORKS" that can demonstrate what you believe in - then James says such "faith" is "...vain...being alone" or worthless faith.
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20)
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17)
Therefore Larry, can you tell me what spiritual "WORKS" you undertake that aim to produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God that add towards your "ACCOUNT" in Heaven?
"But other [seed of the gospel] fell into GOOD GROUND, and brought forth FRUIT, some an HUNDREDFOLD, some SIXTYFOLD, some THIRTYFOLD." (Matthew 13:8)
"Not because I desire a gift: but I DESIRE FRUIT THAT MAY ABOUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT." Philippians 4:17
"I [Jesus] am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman [or gardener]. 2 Every branch [or Christian grafted] in[to] me [at Salvation] that BEARETH NOT FRUIT he [God the Father] TAKETH AWAY [from Me, Jesus for later burning in the Lake of Fire - verse 6]: and every branch that BEARETH FRUIT, he purgeth [or prunes] it [back], that it may bring forth MORE FRUIT." (John 15:1-2). Read verses 1-8 for more detail.
Finally - being a abundant "FRUIT-PRODUCING" Christian is essential to obtaining Salvation. Do you agree with this statement Larry?
Of course, the whole concept of sanctification is built on faith@work. My point is if you are doing rituals you are doing religion, and religion earns contempt. You remember: “the commandments and statutes of men” and “the traditions of the elders” = make work to benefit hierarchal religion.
We are saved in our spirit when justified, then we “work out our salvation [ sanctification ] in fear and trembling” and having done this [ being saved in our soul (life)] , when the meatsuit is retired, we go home to glory. Tripartite SALVATION.
RE: Salvation has three parts; Justification, Sanctification and Glorification.
“Once Saved Always Saved” is talking about the predestined gracious justification of Elohim’s elect offspring who were foreknown [fore-loved] in the omniscient mind of Christ’s Spirit before the creation of time in eternity past. The unelect [unknown: “I Never knew you…”] foolish virgin’s fatal uncertainty comes from democratic innovators within Lucifer’s lukewarm Laodicean Whore. Well actually folks, being under Elohim’s powerful democratic delusion, the Truth-hating foolish virgins have had the holy-theocratic nomenclature of Christ’s mystical parables scrambled or ignored. Sanctification for the elect wise virgins in Christ’s holy-theocratic Bride begins immediately as described in and continues until the body is abandoned. The next thing you will be aware of is waking up in a new body [ flesh and bone ] like our Redeemer. This is called glorification.
For by the predestined grace of Elohim’s holy-theocratic will sovereignly foreordained His elect children to be saved through the indwelling Spirit [i.e. New Wine] of Christ’s most holy and obedient faith working within their faithfully repentant ’new wineskin’ hearts; and that not of themselves: it is the irrevocable gift of God’s Gospel in Ezekiel 36:25-27: Not of their self-righteous-willed works, lest any democratic-minded man should foolishly boast in their flesh’s alleged free will.” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore the wise virgins in Christ’s Bride joyfully take up their martyrs cross and daily work out their salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God (i.e. the New Wine) who theocratically works within their new wineskin hearts causing them both to will and to obediently act according to the foreordained good purpose of His sovereign holy will. Philippians 2:13
To John and Larry - what you have said here simply reflects your religious viewpoint. As what you wrote has little (if any) Biblical basis, I don't intend commenting.
Hello Larry - thanks for posting your comment.
Firstly, it is clear that we both disagree on the Biblical 'truthfulness' about "Once Saved Always Saved" (OSAS). I have proven OSAS to be false in several of my videos. Maybe you might care to view one or more of them and offer some comments in response to share your thoughts with me?
The videos are:
— Critique of Ken Yates Claims About Final Salvation - https://youtu.be/Il-cI0ksX0k
— Scriptural Rebuttal of Dr Gene Kim's statements about OSAS - https://youtu.be/SHXGvxROznU
— Are Robert Breaker's claims about 23rd Sept and 'Once Saved Always Saved' Biblically correct? - https://youtu.be/EVkcaxmsHv0
Next, the article above spoke about the "Children of Abraham" throughout the ages, who have demonstrated before God that as "Abraham had WORKS" that pleased God (John 8:39), so they also have performed the "WORKS" God requires them to perform:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, THE WORKS THAT I DO SHALL HE DO ALSO; and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL HE DO; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12)
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: SHEW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT THY WORKS, AND I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS." (James 2:18)
"Know ye therefore that THEY WHICH ARE OF FAITH [that includes "works"], THE SAME ARE THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM." (Galatians 3:7)
Larry - I'm not trying to appear confrontational here. Christians should defend what they believe. Many refuse to discuss issues like this with me. In this, they prefer to remain silent and move on. This behaviour is what makes Jesus Christ angry with such people, as they demonstrate they have no regard for (Absolute) 'TRUTH' only their own church’s ‘truth’:
" I KNOW THY WORKS, that THOU ART NEITHER COLD [i.e. against what is said by speaking up and quoting scripture verses to support their claims] NOR HOT [indicating total agreement with the preacher]: I would thou wert COLD or HOT. 16 So then because thou art LUKEWARM [by preferring to remain silent and moving on], and NEITHER COLD NOR HOT, I WILL SPUE THEE [or thy name] out of my [Christ’s] mouth [as detestable on Judgment day – Rev 20:11-15]." (Revelation 3:16).
Finally, if you prefer to not engage with me regarding OSAS via the videos, maybe you may care to provide me with an answer to the following question?
The scripture verse stated by the Apostle Paul below says:
"But THEY [i.e. today's Christians?] HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Esaias [Isaiah 53:1] saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?" (Romans 10:16 KJV)
Given that the scripture verses below plainly state that Salvation is:
"...by GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the [free] GIFT OF GOD: 9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
The question here is that if Salvation is a "FREE GIFT" as stated above and in Romans 5:15, 16 and 18, what is the situation the Apostle is referring to in regards to "obeying the gospel"?
Finally, if Christians fail to "obey the gospel", does that indicate they have lost their Salvation?
Any comments you may have would be much appreciated, Larry.
“If Christians fail to meet the above foundational requirements for entry into Heaven, how else can they be assured of Salvation?”
When you recognize the 3 parts of salvation you realize you are justified by GRACE [ unmerited favor ]. Justification is the first step, not the journey. Sanctification is the journey [ the Lord’s Highway ].
I was saved [ justified ]. I am being saved [ sanctified ]. I shall be saved [ like Jesus ].
I noticed that you failed to answer my question Larry. Maybe if you do that, we could consider discussing the matters you have raised?
Do you concur with “Once Justified, Always Justified”?
No.
Do you believe “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Well, you had a pretty long list. Even a short list seems to conflict with “unmerited favor” so I guess I’m stalling until I become more familiar with your point/work/paradigm. If you’re doing anything to earn something you’re doing religion, which I am no longer much interested in.
John 15:1-8 in the King James Bible clearly states that God requires every Christian (symbolised as a "branch" grafted into Jesus (symbolised as the "True Vine") to produce the required quantity of "FRUIT". This means Christians MUST perform "WORKS" in which to produce the "FRUIT".
If "FRUITFUL" Christians produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God by the end of their life, Jesus says that He regards them as "GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS" in Matthew 25:21, 23.
Every "servant" is required by his (or her) master (or mistress) to "WORK". Jesus said this about the 'lazy servant' who failed to "WORK" as required for Him:
"Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine...28 [Jesus said] Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents...30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:24-30.
The point here is that Christians either produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God - or they don't. If they do, then they have eternal life with God and Christ after their life ends here on the Earth. If they fail to produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT", they will be "...cast...into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth [throughout eternity - Isaiah 66:22-24]." "
I hope this helps you "...become more familiar with your point/work/paradigm."
“We are new creatures in Christ, having been begotten by the Spirit. Our identity has been transferred from the fleshly man to the new man that was begotten by our heavenly Father by the Holy Spirit. We are not the same person that was born naturally. Our identity has been transferred to a new man, which, by nature, serves the law of God. That is what Paul taught.e
I agree with what you say Larry; however, "FAITH" without any accompanying "WORKS OF FAITH" is what the Apostle James calls "DEAD FAITH".
So my question to you is this Larry. Further back you said,
"I was saved [ justified ]. I am being saved [ sanctified ]. I shall be saved [ like Jesus ]."
If this a "positional" view of your faith without any of the associated "WORKS" that can demonstrate what you believe in - then James says such "faith" is "...vain...being alone" or worthless faith.
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:20)
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17)
Therefore Larry, can you tell me what spiritual "WORKS" you undertake that aim to produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" unto God that add towards your "ACCOUNT" in Heaven?
"But other [seed of the gospel] fell into GOOD GROUND, and brought forth FRUIT, some an HUNDREDFOLD, some SIXTYFOLD, some THIRTYFOLD." (Matthew 13:8)
"Not because I desire a gift: but I DESIRE FRUIT THAT MAY ABOUND TO YOUR ACCOUNT." Philippians 4:17
"I [Jesus] am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman [or gardener]. 2 Every branch [or Christian grafted] in[to] me [at Salvation] that BEARETH NOT FRUIT he [God the Father] TAKETH AWAY [from Me, Jesus for later burning in the Lake of Fire - verse 6]: and every branch that BEARETH FRUIT, he purgeth [or prunes] it [back], that it may bring forth MORE FRUIT." (John 15:1-2). Read verses 1-8 for more detail.
Finally - being a abundant "FRUIT-PRODUCING" Christian is essential to obtaining Salvation. Do you agree with this statement Larry?
Of course, the whole concept of sanctification is built on faith@work. My point is if you are doing rituals you are doing religion, and religion earns contempt. You remember: “the commandments and statutes of men” and “the traditions of the elders” = make work to benefit hierarchal religion.
We are saved in our spirit when justified, then we “work out our salvation [ sanctification ] in fear and trembling” and having done this [ being saved in our soul (life)] , when the meatsuit is retired, we go home to glory. Tripartite SALVATION.
Larry Carter
Dec 4
RE: Salvation has three parts; Justification, Sanctification and Glorification.
“Once Saved Always Saved” is talking about the predestined gracious justification of Elohim’s elect offspring who were foreknown [fore-loved] in the omniscient mind of Christ’s Spirit before the creation of time in eternity past. The unelect [unknown: “I Never knew you…”] foolish virgin’s fatal uncertainty comes from democratic innovators within Lucifer’s lukewarm Laodicean Whore. Well actually folks, being under Elohim’s powerful democratic delusion, the Truth-hating foolish virgins have had the holy-theocratic nomenclature of Christ’s mystical parables scrambled or ignored. Sanctification for the elect wise virgins in Christ’s holy-theocratic Bride begins immediately as described in and continues until the body is abandoned. The next thing you will be aware of is waking up in a new body [ flesh and bone ] like our Redeemer. This is called glorification.
For by the predestined grace of Elohim’s holy-theocratic will sovereignly foreordained His elect children to be saved through the indwelling Spirit [i.e. New Wine] of Christ’s most holy and obedient faith working within their faithfully repentant ’new wineskin’ hearts; and that not of themselves: it is the irrevocable gift of God’s Gospel in Ezekiel 36:25-27: Not of their self-righteous-willed works, lest any democratic-minded man should foolishly boast in their flesh’s alleged free will.” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore the wise virgins in Christ’s Bride joyfully take up their martyrs cross and daily work out their salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God (i.e. the New Wine) who theocratically works within their new wineskin hearts causing them both to will and to obediently act according to the foreordained good purpose of His sovereign holy will. Philippians 2:13
To John and Larry - what you have said here simply reflects your religious viewpoint. As what you wrote has little (if any) Biblical basis, I don't intend commenting.